Hello,

I am hoping someone can help me fill a gap in my tree.  I have connected a number of my DNA matches to each other and it appears our MRCA are Marie Jeanne Lefebvre (1710-1797) and Jean Baptiste Provencher dit Belleville (1699-1754).  

Working backward from myself, I can trace my line back to Frederick D Belleville, Jr. (1864-1927) and Marie Simard aka Mary Seymour (1873-1948), both born in Canada and buried in Somersworth, NH.  Fred’s father, Frederick D Belleville died in Canada and his wife Louise moved to NH with Fred Jr. and a priest to work for a church.

I cannot read French and have been unable to connect my Belleville line to the Provencher dit Belleville line - basically I am looking for help connecting Fred Sr. and Jean Baptiste Provencher dit Belleville.

Thanks for any help you you can provide!

My tree on Ancestry is “Aliesha Belleville Family tree”

Ali

if you give the spouses of Fred  & Jean Baptiste

it could be a beginning   and  from what region they were

and aproximate dates

certainly would be helpful

I do not have Ancestry..sorry

Jean Baptiste Provencher did Belleville was married to Marie Jeanne Lefebvre (see OP)

Fred Sr was married to a woman named Louise (Belleville - I don’t know her maiden name).  Their son, Fredd Jr. was married to Marie Simard aka Mary Seymour (also in OP). 

Thanks!

Nicolet, Quebec.

Jn Bpte Provencher m  M.Jne Lefebvre 1837 Yamaska

see the  index card on this site this should resolve your question

sorry that was 1737 and not 1837

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

Thanks but that doesn’t connect Fred to Jean Baptiste - there is at least one generation in between and I don’t know which son...

that is more thank one generation    missing   that is a hundred years

your Fred m Simard b.1864  d 1927

son of

Fred  m Louise ?

 then Jean Baptiste   m Lefebvre    1737  ?/ quite impossible

Right... *at least* one. Most likely 2 and possibly 3.  Now you understand the gap I am trying to close.

how  you got to Jn Bpte is  beyond me

I have been a volunteer for more tahn 35 yrs with the local society and I just cannot understand 

unless you  go back one generation at the time

so you need the birth,location     and parents   of Fred  born in 1864  in Quebec

then you will have his parents   marriage  Fred & Louise ? and proceed from there

I am going to the library tomorrow and try to look into this

more closely  ........ wish me luck

DNA.  I got to Jean Baptiste and Jeanne Lefebvre through DNA.  I was able to connect several of my DNA matches together and figured out that our most likely MRCA are as stated.

Before you go to the library, consider the following found at familysearch.org:

Wilfred BELLEVILLE (Joseph & Alvira/Alvina Pichette) (Could this be Frederick/Fred?)

Exilda SIMARD (Rémi & Élise Provençal)

m Rollingsford, NH 7 Jun 1892

Children:

Vena, b 1894; m Rochester, NH 9 Feb 1914 William SEVIGNY (Frank & Phoebe Seinnier, sic)

Arthur, b 1896; m Boscawen, NH 20 Nov 1936 Evelyn EMERSON (John & Anna Colby)

Frank, b 1899; m Portsmouth, NH 29 Dec 1919 Ethel BARRETT (John & Corine Smith)

Ernest, b 1902; m Farmington, NH 16 Jun 1930 Juliette LETOURNEAU (Louis & Odiana Marcoux)

Theodore,  b 1904; m Dover, NH 10 Sep 1932 Odessa WOODS (Bernard & Euphemie Wilson)

Would these all be the same as the Fred Belleville married to Marie Seymour of your question?

Also,

Frederick D. Belleville, Jr s/o Frederick D. Belleville, Sr, d Concord, NH 18 Sep 1927

REVISED POST:

Before you go to the library, consider the following found at familysearch.org:

Wilfred BELLEVILLE (Joseph & Alvira/Alvina Pichette) (Could this be Frederick/Fred? or his brother)

Exilda SIMARD (Rémi & Élise Provençal)

m Rollingsford, NH 7 Jun 1892

Children:

Vena, b 1894; m Rochester, NH 9 Feb 1914 William SEVIGNY (Frank & Phoebe Seinnier, sic)

The following were children of Frederick and Marie (Seymour) Belleville (could these be the same as above couple? or brother to Frederick D Belleville, Sr?)

Arthur, b 1896; m Boscawen, NH 20 Nov 1936 Evelyn EMERSON (John & Anna Colby)

Frank, b 1899; m Portsmouth, NH 29 Dec 1919 Ethel BARRETT (John & Corine Smith)

Ernest, b 1902; m Farmington, NH 16 Jun 1930 Juliette LETOURNEAU (Louis & Odiana Marcoux)

Theodore,  b 1904; m Dover, NH 10 Sep 1932 Odessa WOODS (Bernard & Euphemie Wilson)

Alice, m Milton, NH 24 Jun 1929 Ovila RICHARD (Joseph & Angélina Bélanger)

Also,

Frederick D. Belleville, Jr, s/o Frederick D. Belleville, Sr, d Concord, NH 18 Sep 1927

Yes I have all these records - Wilfred was a grocer and is not the same person as Frederick, who worked at the railroad.  They had similar names, lived in the same area, and married women with similar names, so it has caused much confusion.   The children listed are the children of Fred Jr. and Marie Simard.  

Thanks Aliesha,

Was just checking to see if they were two different families. I was wondering if the two men might be brothers married to two sisters? A possibility???

That is a possibility I have not considered!

Well, I looked at ALL the records again including the 1900, 1910 and 1920 censuses, and I believe the two marriage records are for the same man: Wilfred/Fred D.:  1st m to Delia Provençal; 2nd m to Marie-Exilda Simard.  His ages all match, in vital records and census records. As for the two occupations, he could have previously been a grocer (in 1892), then went to work for the railroad (1900-1920 censuses). I have no problem with him switching jobs, especially if the second one brought in more money for his family.  The problem then lies in the fact that there are TWO sets of parents given: Frank & Louise? or Joseph & Alvira Pichette?  That's what needs to be solved before moving back one or more generations.  As to which is the real set (Louise appears with the family in 1900 & 1910)... so was Alvira really Alvira-Louise? or vice versa?  Hopefully, Renee can figure this out from here.  Dennis 

I really don’t believe they are the same people - I previously traced Wilfred to Rhode Island where he and his wife were both later buried, and Fred and Marie were buried in Somersworth, NH.

Aleisha,

Take a look at the   1881 Census.  Starting at line 10, you can see Agathe Belleville 68, Louise 30, Mathilde 26 and Frederique 16.  Louise and Mathilde are Agathe's daughters.  Their father was Edouard Belleville.  This is the only reference I can find about Frederic Belleville.

Now, take a look at this baptism ( B66 ) : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8993-47SQ?i=396&wc=9RL8-2NR%3A13688901%2C13688902%2C13688903&cc=1321742  .  This Frederique was born on december 10th 1864 from unknown parents.  Usually that's means the parents are not married and the child is illegitimate.  The Godmother is Odile Belleville, daughter of Edouard and Agathe, and the Godfather is her husband, Joseph Côté.  My theory is that the mother was Louise.

Here's Louise's baptism act : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L993-Z7XP?i=586&wc=9RLD-RM7%3A13688901%2C13688902%2C15329101&cc=1321742.  There's a slight difference in the years, but that's the same month as the one on Louise's death certificate.

This would fill your gap.  Edouard Belleville married Agathe Chavanel on March 2nd 1829 at Nicolet.  Edouard was the son of Joseph and Marguerite Courtois.  Their files are on this site :  http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Provencher_Joseph&pid=575471   Joseph was the son of Jean-Baptiste Provencher and Jeanne Lefebvre.

Yves.

I found a Frederic hebert  born 22-8 1864

son of William & Margaret  provencher

bapt Lacolle ....  in the protestant records

Hemmingford is this your Frederic???

I am not getting anywhere  in this search

If Fred sr was in the US when Fred jr got married he should have been a witnedd   it Could be Wlfred or Alfred

names changed as they moved to the US    that was  very common

Dennis I am   sorry no miracles here today

Fred Sr was dead when Louise and Fred Jr moved to NH

WAHOO!  This makes so much sense and matches up with all of my DNA info!  This is AMAZING!!!!!

Yves,

So, based on your research, it looks like this:

Jean Baptiste Provencher and Marie Jeanne Lefebvre

Joseph Provencher and Marguarite Courtois

Edouard Belleville and Agathe Chavanel

Louise (last name??)  and ????(Father)

Frederique (aka Fred Jr.)

Are your thoughts that the father of Frederique/Fred. Jr. was Edouard or another of the brothers?

Thank you so very much!!

One more question.  My apologies, but because I cannot read the documents, I'm having trouble.  Does it look like LOUISE was the daughter of Edouard?  Now I think that is what you are saying... and the father was not her husband...

Yes, that's what I think.

Edouard Provencher dit Belleville married Agathe Chavanel. Their child Jean-Baptiste, Odile and Mathilde got married in Québec.  I think their daughter Louise Belleville had Frederique with an unkown man.

The father can be Louise's father or brother or can also be someone else.

If Frederique is Louise's son, she had him at the age of 21.  Agathe was widower at the 1881 census.  She passed away in 1886 and Mathilde, Louise's younger sister, got married this same year.  So, Louise was alone in Drummondville and she decided to follow her son in USA.  I can't find any marriage for Louise, so I think she never married before moving to USA. 

Yves.

I followed your lead and looked for a Wilfred Belleville in RI (since I live here), and the only Wilfred Belleville I could find was the following man buried at Precious Blood Cemetery in Woonsocket:

Wilfred BELLEVILLE, son of Olivier & Philomène (Ladouceur) Belleville of St-Barthélémy, QC

b Woonsocket, RI 8 Aug 1878; d Pawtucket, RI 16 Mar 1855

He married to Emma VERREAULT  (all this according to Northern RI Burial Records - Fournier Funeral Home, Woonsocket)

The only Exilda "Belleville" I found was also buried in that cemetery, but she is Exilda AUPIN (poss AUBIN) (1872-1947), wife of Edouard BELLEVILLE (son of Edouard & Vitaline (Grégoire) Belleville). He was b 29 Jun 1869; d Woonsocket, RI 8 Nov 1926.

None of this matches the Wilfred BELLEVILLE married to Exilda SIMARD/SEYMOUR you are looking for. So you can rule out this Rhode Island Wilfred as the same man who married Exilda in Rollingsford, NH.

Plus, the RI Wilfred (b 1878) was born some 13-14 years after the NH Wilfred (1864-1866), which I why I still believe that Frederick D. married as "Wilfred" at his second marriage to Exilda, as I stated in my previous post since their ages match this birth data in both marriages to (1) Provençal and (2) Simard, as well as somewhat his gravestone in Somersworth (b 1864).    

Aliesha,

       In your first post on this thread you wrote :  "Fred’s father, Frederick D Belleville died in Canada and his wife Louise moved to NH with Fred Jr. and a priest to work for a church."

How do you know that a priest moved with Louise and Frederick ??  Do you know the name of this priest ??

When I wrote that Frederick's father can be someone else, that includes that priest.

Yves.

I thought about that, too.  The info about Louise moving to NH with a priest (supposedly after “Fred Sr” died) to wa to for a church came from a cousin/family history.  The priest educated Fred Jr, which is how he was able to get a good job with the railroad.  I don’t know the priest’s name or the church, unfortunately.

I found two documents.  Maybe you have the first one.  It's 1900 United States Census.  The family start at line 85.  We can see that Fred was born in december 1864, same as the baptism act I show you before.  Fred and Mary are married since 1893 ( 7 years ).  Fred's mother, Louise, move to USA 5 years after Fred.

I also found the 1871 Canada Census.  Same peoples beginning at line 12 of page 29 : Agathe, Louise, Mathilde and Frederick.  We can see something very hard to read after Frederick.  I"m pretty sure that's DRUMMOND because I compared it to the district number at the top of each page.

Yves

These are definitely my people!  

Now I’m wondering if the gravestone I have for Louise (Belleville) is not the right one because the DOB is 1840, by y I know things weren’t very accurate 100+ years ago...

How do you know that Louise came to the US after Fred?  

Frederick “D” Belleville... I have never know what the “D” stood for... maybe Drummond(?)...

Thank you so much for all of your help- this is fantastic!

Aliesha,

         How do I know that Louise came to the US after Fred? 

It's written on the 1900 United States Census under the columns 16 and 17.

Yves.

It looks like Louise didn't know her DOB exactly.  On 1871 census, she was 25 ( born in 1846 ).  Ten years later, on the 1881 census, she's 30 ( born in 1841 ) .  And on the 1900 USA census, she was born in april 1845.  In my first reply in this thread I gave a link to her baptism act and it says she was born on May 18th 1843.  Louise's DOB on the gravestone was probably given by Frederick to the engraver.

Yves.

Got it.  Sorry - I cannot read the docs in French, so I’m at a bit of a disadvantage.  Thanks so much!

Hello again,

Might tou you be able to tell me the date of the baptism?  Yes cannot work it out.  What I CAN work out is the name of the church... VERY interesting!

Ali

Here's a link to a site where I saved a document for you.  I copied Louise's and Frederic's baptism acts and add a trranslation.  You should be able to copy and save it on your computer :

https://www.cjoint.com/c/HAwsgoomgy4

Yves

Click on the red button to see the document.

Yves.
 

Hi, Yes, I can see it, but I cannot read French.

You can see what ??   The document from the last link I gave ???

Yves

CLick on the read button marked :  "Cliquez pour accéder au fichier"

Yves

I’m so sorry - somewhere in the refreshing on my phone I missed that you had posted a translation for me.  Thank you so very very much.