Hello

I am wondering if anyone can possibly help me. I have been trying quite literally for years to find out this information about my grandfather's grandmother's father's family. We know the following - her parents names were:

Joseph St Pierre (born either in 1826 or 1843) & Marcelline Arsenault (born in either 1844 or 1848) - they were married October 26 1869 in Westmoreland, New Brunswick

His father was also Joseph St Pierre and his mother was a "La Petite" Gauvin and both his parents were listed as having been dead at the time of his marriage to Marcelline, and it stated that they were from St Roch, Quebec, but that is all we know, and this is the brick wall we have been banging out heads again for years. They had at least Josephine, my great, great grandmother and her brother Cyrille - however there is a census that shows there could have been other children (assuming of course that it was the same Joseph and Marcelline - and there is some confusion as this census shows there being a 22 year difference between them, and another census shows them actually being only about a year apart in age so I don't know if it's a mistake in the census or simply two different sets of people with the same name, who happened to also have a Josephine and a Cyrille). 

Josephine born in 1876 married Alfred Cormier Feb 12 1890. She always said she was a Saint Peter, rather than a St Pierre. After Alfred died, she married Adolphe Leblanc.

Her daughter Helena (Lena) born May 31 1903, my great grandmother, had my grandfather, Jude Douglas Cormier (he went by Lena's maiden name), with Joseph Alderic LeBlanc (the son of Adolphe LeBlanc above - yes, our family is quite interesting lol) Dec 27 1927.

I don't speak French, so obviously cannot go searching through French records - translating the marriage record used every bit of my tiny bit of high school French ;) and I honestly don't know where to go from here, since I don't know the name of Joseph's mother. I've no idea why someone would put her name as "the little Gauvin" instead of simply using her actual name - unless perhaps, she died in childbirth and Joseph never knew her but even then, you would think his father would have told him his mother's name. Maybe the person transcribing the note in the registration book simply couldn't spell the name, but again, you would think they would try to do it phonetically. It's a huge, HUGE frustration for our family. lol

So any help as to what we could possibly do as a next step to finding out what her name was so that we could continue the family line would be wonderful.

Thank you!
Beverly

you have certainly a unique story here

I am a volunteer withthe local society for many years 35+ really

 if you give an email address  I will try my best to help

St Roch Quebec  probably refers to the parish name in Quebec city( my guess)

Thank you so much!

My email is: forcryinoutloud@gmail.com

On this site below, you have the birth of Marcelline Arsenault: 14 nov 1844, Shemogue, NB

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/arsenault/1476/

Just received the solution from Paul Bujold    it  is Virginie  Gauvin

thanks Roger she has all that  on Marceline 

Thank you so much for your help! I'm dancing for joy right now! I cannot wait to tell my family!

Bonjour Renée, peut être un peu + d'info concernant cette recherche ???

"Just received the solution from Paul Bujold    it  is Virginie  Gauvin

thanks Roger she has all that  on Marceline "

Plusieurs chercheurs, présent et futur.  seraient intéressés d'avoir de l'info concernant ce sujet  !

Roger

desolee  c'est sur rootweb world connect et  je ne trouve pas la naissance de Joseph peu etre  il serait nee sous un autre nom ?? Virginie  m a Pierre St Pierre 27-2   1843 St  Roch des Aulnaies

Si je comprend bien, "le brick wall" est toujours un "brick wall" !

Voici votre mariage de 1843...je doute fort que ce soit le bon couple !

http://www.nosorigines.org/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Pierre_St-Pierre&pid=1145620&lng=fr&partID=1145623

Sadly, yes it is still a brick wall.

The problem is that I have not, at least not yet, found any sons of Pierre and Virginie that married a Marcelline Arsenault (assuming that Joseph is not the name he actually went by). And we do have the marriage registry for Joseph and Marcelline, so we know that they did, in fact, marry on Oct 26 1869 (today is their anniversary! lol). I am still looking, and keeping my fingers crossed that perhaps it is just buried amongst the sons somewhere and I just have not found the correct son yet.

perhaps you do not have the parents of Marcelline Arsenault ?

info from "Dictionnaire généalogique des familles Arsenault" par Denis Savard (Google books)

Etienne Arsenault (Remi Arsenault / Perpetue Leblanc)

Victoire Petitpas / Apolline Vautour)

enfant:

Marcelline et Joseph St-Pierre M26-10-1869, Barachois (Joseph St-Pierre / la petite Gauvin); du Cap Pelé

Oops a little correction:

Victoire Petitpas (Nicolas Petitpas / Apolline Vautour

Sorry.

found an interesting marriage:

Simon St-Pierre et Angelique Tapp, married 4 nov 1879, Barachois, Gaspe

parents: Pierre St-Pierre et Virginie Gauvin

previous marriage for Angelique Tapp: Joseph Leblanc

Joseph St-Pierre and "la petite Gauvin are in fact: Pierre St-Pierre and Virginie Gauvin !

you stated "from St-Roch, Québec", in fact it's  St-Roch des Aulnaies, Québec !

On the link below you have your answer.

http://www.nosorigines.org/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Pierre_St-Pierre&pid=1145620&lng=fr&partID=1145623

We have all of Marcelline's line - as far as we can go (which is quite far). The St Pierre line is the line that has always given us the trouble.

We have Joseph St Pierre & "La Petite Gauvin" as the parents of Joseph St Pierre, who married Marcelline Arsenault. They had at least two children (I'm sure several more but we have documentation for two); Cyrille and Josephine, who is my great, great grandmother. She married Alfred Cormier and had my great grandmother Helena Cormier, who had Jude Douglas, my grandfather with Joseph Alderic LeBlanc.

Unfortunately it is as if our line does not exist lol. We find the marriage resigtry for Joseph and Marcelline, we can find weird censuses that list Joseph, Marcelline and their son Joseph and then another that lists Marcelline with her second husband, the Govin, but Joseph her son is listed as ridiculously close in age to her (I'd have to go looking for the census again, but I believe the math would make it that she had Joseph when she was 11). Then there is a third census that has Marcelline, Joseph, their son Joseph and also Josephine, my grandmother, and I believe it was three other children (again I would need to get the census up to verify) but in this one it lists Joseph and Marcelline as being 22 years in age difference. 

The only real documentation I have is more "recent" - Cyrille's marriage certificate, Josephine's marriage certificate for her second marriage, the marriage registry for Joseph and Marcelline. It's sadly very little go on.

Now, if the census that says there was 22 years in the difference of their age was correct, that could mean that Joseph was married a first time before Marcelline, which would add to the complication of finding him. 

Hello brick wall. lol

That Joseph does not marry Marcelline Arsenault, rather an Angelina Labbe, nor do they have Josephine or Cyrille, my great, great grandmother and her brother. 

did you have the mariage of Cyrille ?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-LB6F-B84?i=97&cc=2001064

Yes, we did thank you. ^_^ That's the document that gave us proof that we weren't crazy, and that yes, Joseph and Marcelline did exist beyond that entry in the marriage registry. LOL 

We have Josephine's death certificate, and her son is the one that filled out it out. He filled it in the way Josephine always referred to herself - as a Saint Peter (that her father was a Saint Peter), but we assume that they adopted an anglicized version of St Pierre. There were many Saint Peter's that lived around them when they lived in Amherst in the early 1900s - cousins I assume. Unfortunately, they were all as tight lipped when it came to their ancestry. My grandfather could never get any straight answers out of my gg grandmother, other than that her parents were Joseph and Marcelline. My grandmother was into genealogy before she died and she had tried for years to find out this information for her husband, my grandfather before he died, but sadly she had little luck getting anything out of the older generation either. Everyone was so secretive, and now they're all gone.

Jumping in on this conversation  kind of late.....I do not believe that Joseph St Pierre and Pierre St pierre can be the same person. The marriage occurred in 1869, and both of his parents were dead. Pierre St Pierre and Virginie Gauvin died in 1888 and 1877 respectively, so this would mean that Joseph and Pierre are not the same person. Has there been any further progress on this question?

No sadly this has not been solved yet. The dates do not work out for Pierre and Virginie Gauvin.

We have found several other family members distantly related who also have Joseph and Marceline/Marcelline on their trees, but they too have not been able to get past the marriage entry that lists Joseph's parents as Joseph St Pierre and La Petite Gauvin. 

We've unfortunately come to the conclusion that we've exhausted all avenues we are able to explore ourselves, and unless we want to hire a professional genelogist to attempt to unravel the mystery of who La Petite Gauvin actually was, we are unlikely to ever get farther than that on that particular branch of our tree.

***

Non, malheureusement, cela n'a pas encore été résolu. Les dates ne fonctionnent pas pour Pierre et Virginie Gauvin.

Nous avons trouvé plusieurs autres membres de la famille éloignés qui ont également Joseph et Marceline / Marcelline sur leurs arbres, mais eux aussi n'ont pas été en mesure de passer l'entrée de mariage qui répertorie les parents de Joseph comme Joseph St Pierre et La Petite Gauvin.

Nous sommes malheureusement arrivés à la conclusion que nous avons épuisé toutes les voies que nous sommes en mesure d'explorer nous-mêmes, et à moins que nous ne voulions embaucher un génélologue professionnel pour tenter de percer le mystère de qui était réellement La Petite Gauvin, il est peu probable que nous le fassions jamais. aller plus loin que cela sur cette branche particulière de notre arbre.